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Talk:Chronology
Personally, I think this page looks rather cluttered and I would like to propose the chronology is presented in an easy to read table format, with colours instead of typesetting indicating canonicity. The below is a proposed sample for the Buffy Season 1: Autumn 1996 – Summer 1997 section. --Paul van Gent 14:40, September 4, 2011 (UTC) :I would be in favor of moving to a tabular format, but I would prefer a color scheme that better matches the theme of the website. DinoSlider 14:56, September 4, 2011 (UTC) ::Good point, you seem like a pretty prolific editor. Do you know anything about the preferred RGB colours? --Paul van Gent 17:37, September 4, 2011 (UTC) :::I don't think there are "preferred" colors, but some of the more prevalent color codes are: D3E1F2, 334455, and 3F256D. As long as as it doesn't clash too much, I'm sure it'll be fine. DinoSlider 20:17, September 4, 2011 (UTC) ::::Hi DinoSlider, I saw that you changed from using colour codes to using named styles, but somehow they seem not to work, the colors have gone :( --Paul van Gent 07:08, September 21, 2011 (UTC) :::::You might have a cached version of the old stylesheet. Try clearing your cache and try again. What browser are you using? DinoSlider 04:02, September 22, 2011 (UTC) ::::::Unfortunately, I'm having the same issue, using both Safari and Firefox on the Mac. Emptied cache on both to no avail. I do know Safari has a history of keeping CSS style info even when reloading a page — do you know where the style sheet lives? Sometimes loading that page individually (and then reloading it) will force reloading of the styles, which may solve the problem. Tohubohu (my site) 11:21, September 22, 2011 (UTC) ::::::Same issue's showing up in IE7 for Windows. The style definitions aren't coming through at all. Tohubohu (my site) 14:04, September 22, 2011 (UTC) ::::Hope I haven't been stepping on anyone's toes (I'm new here, and to the Buffyverse in general), but once I saw the page was starting to be updated to the new style, I thought I'd pitch in -- I'm pretty obsessive about timelines and such. I definitely concur that styles will make things easier (especially if they give us the option for customizing colors later), but alas, they don't appear to be working (yet). One other question -- if we're doing styles, is there a way to set the style of the table to render by default in normal text instead of bold? That way we could just use normal wiki markup inside. Just an idea. Tohubohu 11:04, September 21, 2011 (UTC) ::::Oh, and FYI -- the new formatting works much better on mobile devices, which is as often as not how I'm looking at the page. So thanks, there. Tohubohu 11:06, September 21, 2011 (UTC) Now that it is in a table, wouldn't it make sense to separate out the Title/Description column? I see four potential columns: title, year, location, and description. Opinions? DinoSlider 00:10, September 23, 2011 (UTC) :I certainly wouldn't be averse to the idea. The only question is how much of that information would be repetitive. Useful in the historical sections, yes, but once we get into the seasons themselves, I think there would be a lot of repeated years and "Sunnydale" or "Los Angeles" entries. Just a thought, though -- I haven't been kicking around here long enough to have a heavyweight opinion; I just like to fiddle about with timelines. Tohubohu (my site) 02:43, September 23, 2011 (UTC) :Okay, here's an option: What do you think? The "decryption" section makes the page closer to being a true "chronology" as opposed to being just a list of entries. Ideally, we could make that description section collapsible so as to avoid spoilers, but (a) I don't know if we have the collapsible table options set up on this wiki, and (b) I'm not sure how well nested collapsible tables work. (There's some info on adding the necessary JavaScript and css code here, but it would take some work for someone to set up and test. Maybe for the next iteration.) In any case, below is a first stab at it, without the collapsible option (though the background colors still aren't working at the moment). Tohubohu (my site) 18:15, September 24, 2011 (UTC) Okay, so thanks to DinoSlider's diligence, the text-weight issue is resolved. But the background colors still aren't showing up. Now I'm wondering if the style definition is set for just a single user, or a subset of users (which would explain why DinoSlider sees it while Paul van Gent and I don't). Unfortunately, I'm not experienced enough to know for sure. Ideas? Tohubohu (my site) 02:55, September 23, 2011 (UTC) :Bonus weirdness: It's showing up correctly on the mobile version of the site (i.e., colors and all), while not on the desktop version. I have no idea what that means... maybe a lag time in propagating the style sheet across different versions? Tohubohu (my site) 17:21, September 23, 2011 (UTC) :Got it! For people using the new Wikia layout, the Common.css code isn't used anymore. The CSS in question has to be transferred to the new Wikia.css page. Once that's done (which, again, requires an admin), then the display should be all set for everyone. Tohubohu (my site) 21:51, September 26, 2011 (UTC) Still the background colors don't show up (using New Wikia look). Also, its good to have information of each event and who is involved as opposed to just the titles.--Gonzalo84 23:30, September 26, 2011 (UTC) Spike: Magical Mystery Tour, featuring the beetles I think that the placement of that story is incorrect as it takes place when Spike is returning to Earth, some time after the Spike mini-series and before the Last Gleaming sotyline, so why is it placed between Season 8 and Season 9? Adriano1995 16:41, January 1, 2012 (UTC) Pretty sure you're right. For my part, I'm going through the Buffyverse works (many of them, anyway) chronologically, and am working on verifying the After the Fall "season" now (where there are also some issues with the noncanon Angel stories written before ATF that I'm trying to accurately place), so I haven't gotten into Season 8 yet. But my understanding is that the conclusion of S:MMTFTB takes place during Last Gleaming. At the very least, it makes more sense to place this story before Last Gleaming in the timeline, unless we want to split up the storyline entries more. S:MMTFTB has date references throughout (or at least day counts), but I'm not sure if we've got such accurate dating for the rest of Season 8. For now, I'll at least place it before Last Gleaming, unless someone wants to do a more detailed breakdown. Fundamentally, I think the placement of the story at the beginning of Season 9 was just a tentative assignment given the publication date of the story -- before a lot of people (myself included) had been able to read it. Good catch. Tohubohu (my site) 16:55, January 3, 2012 (UTC) The Latest Craze & Bad Blood I'm trying to watch every episodes & read every comics in the given chronology but I feel there's something wrong with those two comics... In The Latest Craze, Buffy's Claddagh ring is stolen by the Hooligans but she gave it away in Faith, Hope & Trick, right before Angel's return from Hell. Therefore, this comic should be placed before the episode. Something like that, perhaps: The other one, Bad Blood, is the one from the Omnibus Vol. 4, which means it also features Crash Test Demons and Pale Reflections. In Bad Blood, Amy Madison is in her human form (and ALL ''over Todd Dahl...) but she changed into a rat in ''Gingerbread. So I suggest it should be something like this: Of course, this is only my humble opinion. Since we're in a community that's why I'm writing this here before doing any changes, so I can have your opinion Nightseeker2 (talk) 01:20, July 26, 2014 (UTC) I think it's usually best to try and keep the comics in the order they appear in the Omnibus collections (since that's the order the powers-that-be at Dark Horse have put together as at least somewhat "official," even if the stories aren't always "canon"), but you're right that these do present a problem with that timeline. As for the first, true, Buffy doesn't have the Claddagh ring after Faith, Hope & Trick. But moving The Latest Craze so much earlier in the timeline means that either (a) we have to throw out the Dark Horse comic ordering, or (b) move all of the preceding stories before then — and that messes up a few of them (including the Halloween comic, which clearly has to take place at, y'know, Halloween). In reviewing the comic, I'm more inclined to write the appearance of the ring off as a continuity error rather than a call for new placement. It's certainly possible that Buffy has another ring that the artist simply drew (erroneously) as her Claddagh ring — though I'll admit she does say the ring is "priceless" to her. Keeping it where it is also ensures that it takes place after Band Candy — which makes Buffy's assertion that Ethan Rayne "keeps" coming back to terrorize Sunnydale more relevant. At the very least, I'd want to study the timeline more carefully to be sure. But Amy Madison is definitely full-on rat from Gingerbread through Smashed (except for a brief moment in Something Blue), so that change seems pretty sensible. It also doesn't appear to break anything, as we can solve it by just moving Gingerbread to after Bad Blood. So in the end, FWIW, I'm inclined to go ahead with the second change but hold on the first. Make sense? If anyone has any objections (or has a better idea as to how to make it all fit together), we can always change it again. Tohubohu (my site) 12:41, February 2, 2015 (UTC) Spike: Into the Light Spike: Into the Light presents a continuity problem, in that the official note is that the comic takes place "early" in Buffy the Vampire Slayer (season 7), and that Spike is "taking a break from Sunnydale." But the events in the story make it clear that Spike no longer has his behavior-inhibiting chip in place (which would place it after The Killer in Me), so we're already past the 13th episode. (It's possible that the chip was still in place but malfunctioning, but one would assume Spike would have made note of that.) Spike mentions his intent to leave town at the end of First Date, but doesn't appear to do so, and doesn't redon his leather coat (which he wears in the comic) until Get It Done. Assuming the comic does in fact take place in season 7, then it seems the most logic place is after Lies My Parents Told Me but before Dirty Girls, which really commences the season-ending series of events. (Given that Lies My Parents Told Me focuses on the events surrounding Nikki Wood's death — and the comic's flashback sequence takes place shortly after Spike has killed Nikki — this seemed the most narratively apt placement.) There has been speculation that the story would more appropriately take place sometime during Angel (season 5), but (a) this directly contradicts the assertions made by the book's publisher, and (b) if so, it would have to take place after Spike's recorporealization in Destiny, putting it even further in the future. And after that point, it seems that Spike intends to stay until the Shanshu Prophecy is resolved. (He even notes his intent to leave LA in Harm's Way, but is convinced to stay.) This is certainly a possibility though, as nothing in the text of the book itself expressly contradicts it. But my thinking was to try and stay as close to the publisher's stated placement, introducing as few alterations as possible. Tohubohu (my site) 10:22, February 2, 2015 (UTC) Fray While at present, each issue of the Fray series is listed individually. But while the individual issues were titled, it seems fairly clear that it is a single story arc, as opposed to an episodic "series" per se. My instinct is that this should be a single chronology entry for clarity. Any other thoughts? Tohubohu (my site) 20:05, February 2, 2015 (UTC) Okay, in the absence of other comments (for the moment, at least), I've gone ahead and consolidated Fray into a single story arc entry, but also added Flashback bits into the main timeline — the Primordium Age, the (second) end of magic, Mel and Harth's confrontation and Harth's apparent death. I also rewrote the description of the arc to be a bit more representative of the overall story (since Urkonn's arrival and Fray's calling is really only a fragment of it). I've linked the titles to the overall series for now as opposed to any individual issue. Tohubohu (my site) 14:17, February 22, 2015 (UTC) Floating Timeline I added a note to the page to indicate the "floating timeline" evidenced in the Buffyverse comics. While I don't think we've seen too many indications that the timeline in the comics has diverged from real-world time, it's clear that there are some divergent elements creeping in — largely contemporary references (e.g., Buffy's infatuations with Daniel Craig and the Hemsworth brothers) that would not be appropriate to the time frame in which the stories are set. We've gone back and forth as to whether or not to include specific dates in the post-television sections, but my take is that (from a maintenance standpoint, at least) it's better to keep the dates as noted and forgive the contemporary references as innocuous continuity errors. Of course, this may all change if the comics take a big leap forward, or if things get so out of whack that we have to revisit. Just my thoughts (as I'm finally getting around to going back through the season 8-10 comics to review for continuity notes) — if anyone has a better solution, please feel free to weigh in. Tohubohu (my site) 14:26, February 4, 2015 (UTC) Unconfirmed VS Non Canon I would like to see a separation of unconfirmed canon and non-canon with a color change. Perhaps a yellow color for the unconfirmed? I believe this will allow those of us overly obsessed with canon to have fewer sources to review. tzi (talk) 19:10, January 4, 2016 (UTC) :I don't think there's anything that falls into an "unconfirmed" category — the rules for determining canon are fairly well established (though, of course, your mileage may vary), and I believe we've gone through everything on this list. So anything that is canon under the current rules is blue, anything that is not canon is red. That's not to say definitively that non-canon events did not happen (insofar as events can "happen" in a fictional universe), but that they cannot be confirmed as having happened (at least from a storytelling standpoint). If in doubt, an item is considered non-canon until proven otherwise. (Non-canon items can, of course, move into the canon category should the powers-that-be opt to make them so. But until then, they remain non-canon.) Or am I missing something (which is certainly a possibility)? Tohubohu (my site) 19:46, January 4, 2016 (UTC) :Ah, I think I see the issue — the key at the top of the page notes non-canon items as Non-canon or unconfirmed canon. I see how that might be interpreted as meaning that we have some "unknowns" or "TBDs" in that category, which is not the case (or at least not really). At this point, everything has been sorted — but the key serves as a sort of indicator as to the somewhat fluid nature of what's classified as non-canon. While simply labeling it Non-canon might be simpler, I think it might be best to keep it ambiguous. Thoughts? Tohubohu (my site) 19:53, January 4, 2016 (UTC)